Weekend Replay: “The Cube”, Again
I’m sure you can tell we’re huge fans of The Cube, the hit ITV game show in England which will be coming to America in 2010 on FOX. We’re trying to spread the word as much as we can. It would suck for a show this good to go away quickly so the more people aware at the start the beginning. So I’ll pretend to help and just showcase some more clips. This is a full game of last week’s episode. We have the first two parts here and the rest is after the break so the post isn’t gigantic.
I’ve been reading over all your proposed changes to The Cube when it comes to FOX and I do have to ask: why change it that much? What they have there works. What they have in England is pretty American now except for a few things which I’m sure we’ll add. I mean beyond doubling the money which is bound to happen, why alter it that much? Some of the money chains are a bit insane, all these extra rules aren’t needed really, I don’t think The Body needs to be some giant foe and the host doesn’t have to look identical to the British host. Bottom line is to keep the show simple so anyone can follow and don’t fuss with what apparently works very well. Every show that has been transplanted to America and has been a hit, with maybe one exception I can think of (1 VS 100) has just imported the exact format to America and changed the window dressing a bit. Can we just do that instead of making it a parody?
What do you mean, 1 vs. 100 was an exception?
If they're bringing any more British shows to the States, I would suggest The Krypton Factor, Countdown, Mastermind, Knightmare, The Crystal Maze, or Going for Gold (80s version).
well the 2nd season of 1 vs. 100 was the only one I know of with that kind of Money Tree
everyone had the season 1 one (double words)
$10,000
$9,000
$8,000
$7,000
$6,000
$5,000
$4,000
$3,000
$2,000
$1,000
I could think of a money tree: $10K – $25K – $50K – $100K – $250K – $500K – $1 Million
Here's my "ideal" chain:
$2,500 – $5,000 – $25,000 – $50,000 – $100,000 – $250,000 – $500,000.
The point of having that huge jump is that it pretty much ensures that contestants will go for $25K (unless, say, they've used up seven lives and their Trial Run and Simplify getting to $5,000).
The only change I would make is to allow The Cube to "offer" buyouts at the higher levels ($25,000 and up) when a player reaches his or her last life. For example, let's say a player goes for $250,000 with four lives left; the Cube might then offer, say, $20,000 if the player is down to one life. (For $25,000, the offer might only be $2,000.) The idea here is that the offer is low enough that a player truly has to decide if it's worth it to "take something" rather than risk leaving with nothing.
Is it just me, or does Pathfinder look really easy?
Alex, you want to know why… Cause what works for the UK audience wont work for the US on a mass market. The Rich List didn't work on a mass market (fox pulling after just one episode, sharing the line with Gleason's Your in the Picture), and only worked when released in the narrow-cast market of GSN.
So yes, some things need to be modified to make it just as big of a hit here as it is there, and while most of us may HATE those changes, if we want to see it succeed state-side instead of disappearing just as quickly, this is the reason why it must change. While I dont like $1,000,000 for 7 games, that why I proposed an 8th game for that $1m so that Fox can have the $1m prize to compete/keep the audience, but also to make it THAT much harder to actually get a $1m winner.
I also love making the competitor in this, the cube, more of a presence (not to be annoying mind you as Hal is on 20Q) but it can work…. I'm open to all suggestions :)
Spoken like a true network executive!
The US 1 vs. 100 (as far as I know) was the first version with a set money tree. I also believe it was the first version where the One was allowed to walk away with the money.
Actually it's spoken more like someone who thinks they are. I'm really going to try to not be an ass but you're (Chris) just…wrong in basically all levels. I swear I'm not trying to pick on you, but this will just be a fun conversation.
First off, The Rich List did not work on GSN. Game show fans like it but the ratings frankly sucked. I wish they didn't but they did. That's not working.
" I don’t know about keeping the host, we can find our clone of the guy, but I agree, no more Foxworthies, or Mandells to do this show, a comedian in this role would be just totally awful."
We don't need to find a clone of the host. Just find someone competent. I mean I watch all these foreign versions of Deal or No Deal and think it's hysterical how many hosts are direct copies of Howie, down to the baldness and facial hair. Just find someone who's a good host and it will work. I fully suggest Mark L. Walberg since he's been in the FOX family and still is. He's not under an exclusive contract with that lottery show. As far as I know he doesn't do that. It's why he's not the host of Let's Make A Deal.
Why don't you like 7 games for a million? Most people stop at game 4 and on rare occasions game 5. If you seriously just did $5K-$10K-$25K-$50K-$100K-$250K-(or)$1M, you'd have people risking it. This is assuming this is a $1M game show which I doubt (I'd expect $500K). In an all or nothing game you need to have relatively steep increases in pay or everyone stops. It's why people go on so long on UK's The Cube.
Why does the Cube need to be more of a presence? Isn't it already? I mean do you want it to have a mouth and eyes or something? The Cube already taunts the player during game introductions. It pulses colors and sound effects when attention is drawn to it. It's got CG graphics, stop motion cameras, and hydraulics already attached. It's got a flashy Body which kicks your ass at each game. It's already a large enough foe. Any more and then you have talking plexi-glass which makes it an instant Soup contender.
I may not be a fan of a ton of FOX game shows but there's absolutely no doubt they know what they are doing. Fifth Grader and Don't Forget the Lyrics were major hits because they are simple formats that didn't get flashy or over-gimmicky. Like it or not The Moment of Truth was a hit too but FOX screwed up the scheduling and it hurt the show. They know what they are doing. The UK version has American level production values in flashiness already. This isn't some show they are starting from scratch. They are starting a show that's critically acclaimed and a big hit already. I expect the top prize to be $500,000 and everything else be a direct port of the UK version maybe with some set adjustments.
We're not playing with 1 VS 100 where the show wasn't a smash hit and they stuck to a set of rules which were very popular. We're playing with a show that regularly gets over a 20 share in the ratings (something American networks dream of) and is just about as American as you can make it without shoving apple pie and obese children over the set. FOX is not dumb. And it's probably a moot point anyway since they've said they're basically going to copy the UK show and the UK production team is, last time I checked, handling this show. Frankly I'd expect contestants to be shipped to England to use their set and everything.
Actually it’s spoken more like someone who thinks they are. I’m really going to try to not be an ass but you’re (Chris) just…wrong in basically all levels. I swear I’m not trying to pick on you, but this will just be a fun conversation. And this is coming from someone with production experience, is working with ITV (the network in England that airs The Cube), and knows someone involved in this entire process.
First off, The Rich List did not work on GSN. Game show fans like it but the ratings frankly sucked. I wish they didn’t but they did. That’s not working. I adore the crew and Fred Roggin is unbelievably amazing, but in the grand scheme of things it did not work, so that example isn’t working here.
” I don’t know about keeping the host, we can find our clone of the guy, but I agree, no more Foxworthies, or Mandells to do this show, a comedian in this role would be just totally awful.”
We don’t need to find a clone of the host. Just find someone competent. I mean I watch all these foreign versions of Deal or No Deal and think it’s hysterical how many hosts are direct copies of Howie, down to the baldness and facial hair. Just find someone who’s a good host and it will work. I fully suggest Mark L. Walberg since he’s been in the FOX family and still is. He’s not under an exclusive contract with that lottery show. As far as I know he doesn’t do that. It’s why he’s not the host of Let’s Make A Deal.
Why don’t you like 7 games for a million? Most people stop at game 4 and on rare occasions game 5. If you seriously just did $5K-$10K-$25K-$50K-$100K-$250K-(or)$1M, you’d have people risking it. This is assuming this is a $1M game show which I doubt (I’d expect $500K). In an all or nothing game you need to have relatively steep increases in pay or everyone stops. It’s why people go on so long on UK’s The Cube.
Why does the Cube need to be more of a presence? Isn’t it already? I mean do you want it to have a mouth and eyes or something? The Cube already taunts the player during game introductions. It pulses colors and sound effects when attention is drawn to it. It’s got CG graphics, stop motion cameras, and hydraulics already attached. It’s got a flashy Body which kicks your ass at each game. It’s already a large enough foe. Any more and then you have talking plexi-glass which makes it an instant Soup contender.
I may not be a fan of a ton of FOX game shows but there’s absolutely no doubt they know what they are doing. Fifth Grader and Don’t Forget the Lyrics were major hits because they are simple formats that didn’t get flashy or over-gimmicky. Like it or not The Moment of Truth was a hit too but FOX screwed up the scheduling and it hurt the show. They know what they are doing. The UK version has American level production values in flashiness already. This isn’t some show they are starting from scratch. They are starting a show that’s critically acclaimed and a big hit already. I expect the top prize to be $500,000 and everything else be a direct port of the UK version maybe with some set adjustments.
We’re not playing with 1 VS 100 where the show wasn’t a smash hit and they stuck to a set of rules which were very popular. We’re playing with a show that regularly gets over a 20 share in the ratings (something American networks dream of) and is just about as American as you can make it without shoving apple pie and obese children over the set. FOX is not dumb. And it’s probably a moot point anyway since they’ve said they’re basically going to copy the UK show and the UK production team is, last time I checked, handling this show. Frankly I’d expect contestants to be shipped to England to use their set and everything.
If I were to make at least one change to the set, i'd get rid of the pointless spinning walkway. It doesn't serve much of a purpose outside of looking cool.
Nice of you to DOUBLE POST something that "isn't" directly attacking or being an "ass" your word, not mine, but here we go, as you are the one trying to set yourself in authority before you began.
First of all, I love ITV's Cube, watch the postings on the Tube of the Saturday night showing. So Im not coming from someone who hates the show or anything along those lines.
Starting from where you did, While yes, the Rich List will not be back for a second season on GSN, you'd be hard pressed to argue it didnt work better on GSN than it did on FOX, which is the point I was making in my original post.
Second, the host remark is only due to everyone else wanting to either just bring the UK host over, or to try to find their own copy of that host… I was saying I could care less as to whom they get, as they will find someone, but I just wanted no more comedians as game show hosts as we in the states has been getting. Again, thanks for MISSING the point Alex.
Third, I don't really want a one million dollar prize on a US version of the Cube, but knowing a $250k-$500k show likely will not fly on primetime tv, if we must give it away, I want it to be an intensive battle to get there. Hence why others suggested major increases all over the money ladder, I left the UK ladder alone, 1k-2k-10k-20k-50k-100k-250k and just put the $1m after the 250k, making it a 4x gamble for the final game for a million, when the player should be very short on lives. You said you love the UK money tree, but then propose a different one in your answer to me, so I find that quite amusing!
As for the Cube having a presence, I came upon that as of late, it wasn't something I was thinking when it was first announced. It may need some work, but having a male voice do the intimidating, while a female "body" demoing the games just never left it to me as "the Cube" fighting you to make sure you didn't leave with a lot of money.
I then LOVE you have total faith in FOX to produce a great gameshow. I could easily disprove that by going to your own archives and you ripping 5th Grader everytime you had a chance. Lets face it, other than Greed, FOX hasn't done much right on this. Moment of truth, like you I did like, but as you stated their execs were stupid, and scheduled it to death. Their gameshow/reality show Unanimous, total farce. 5th Grader and Lyrics, totally overplugged going into commercial so you really didn't need to watch any further as you knew what happened.
As for the ratings, a 20 share in UK television is NOT as hard as you'd like it to be. Yes, American networks would drool if they got the report from Nielsen that they had a 20 share. To believe they are going to get that number with the Cube, or any show, is really really daydreaming Alex, and you know it.
You and I Alex have had our arguements on this site, and it's one of the reasons I return, as unlike some other sites (thinking of a TPiR pricing game), ideas for the most part are able to flow back and forth here. Our last squibble was over the TPiR Earth Day episode if you remember. I've never said I know what an exec does, or someone totally entrenched in the industry. We all don't get your contacts Alex. I write from a fan's perspective, of what we'd like to see, how we can make sure what we want to see will remain as long as we can have it, and to enjoy it the entire time. I await to see your response.
OK I'm just ending this quickly. I had computer issues and I kept clicking "Submit Comment" until the page did something and I didn't mean to double post, so thanks for that.
This is where we need to get rid of the game show fan and think as a casual viewer. That's what I attempt to do here. I don't want to cater specifically to the hardcore game show base. I'm interested in the bigger picture. It's why I don't understand the hate for comedians as game show hosts. Just about everyone one of the major network game shows that have had comedians as hosts have turned out fine. Howie is fantastic, Bob Saget was great, Drew Carey is good and gets hell because he's not Bob Barker, etc. The shows with comedians as host that didn't turn out OK failed because the show sucked. If the comedian does a good job keeping suspense and being funny at the same time, so what? They could choose any stand up comic who is out of work. I could care less as long as it's hosted fine.
I love the UK tree but you know as well as I do that it's not going to stick around. I'd prefer it to but it's just not going to happen. I don't think saying, "Eh screw it, just shove a number at the end of the chain and call it a day," works. That's being a lazy producer. People barely get through four or (on the odd chance) five games with more than three lives left. You will never have a top winner with an eighth game.
As for the Cube's presence, that's hard to argue. It's just a matter of personal taste.
Again, my ripping of 5th Grader is based on the fact I didn't care for the show. There's no way you can argue that FOX didn't create a show that people loved, though. Same with Don't Forget the Lyrics. There's no denying that Moment of Truth was a guilty pleasure that got screwed by scheduling and did what it meant to do: provoke. They have had good fortune with game shows they put effort into and bad luck with shows that were thrown together to compete against someone (IE Chance of a Lifetime, The Chamber, etc). The whole commercial-revealing aspect is something game show fans like to get pissed about but apparently the general audience didn't care and the shows stayed popular and gained viewers throughout the hour.
A 20 share for a *brand new* game show in England that has stayed stable for six or seven weeks is something I have not seen in ages. I never suggested it would get a 20 share in America. I'm saying the show is unbelievably stable there with a rating and share staying at the same level constantly, which is amazing.
When you write from a fan's perspective you lose sight to what's important: the viewing audience. The networks don't care about big game show fans. They want the casual viewers. It's why the tons of people bitching about revealing commercial breaks and the general stuff gets slightly old. The general audiences apparently don't mind, ratings go up each half hour because of the teasing, and they keep coming in. Once people get so caught up in fan mode, people completely miss out on the big picture. And the big picture here is England has a well respected show that has an remarkable and unbelievably stable viewing audience, that's critically acclaimed, and that's just about as American as you can make it without adding American contestants. I've not seen a single suggestion to the show so far that adds anything. Mostly everything boils down to change for the sake of change or fandom getting in the way too much.
And finally, I just wanted to say that if there absolutely had to be something changed, your addition of the million at the end is the only thing suggested that has remotely worked. It doesn't destroy the flow of the game and makes some sense. It's most likely not going to happen, though.
OK I'm just ending this quickly. I had computer issues and I kept clicking "Submit Comment" until the page did something and I didn't mean to double post, so thanks for that.
This is where we need to get rid of the game show fan and think as a casual viewer. That's what I attempt to do here. I don't want to cater specifically to the hardcore game show base. I'm interested in the bigger picture. It's why I don't understand the hate for comedians as game show hosts. Just about everyone one of the major network game shows that have had comedians as hosts have turned out fine. Howie is fantastic, Bob Saget was great, Drew Carey is good and gets hell because he's not Bob Barker, etc. The shows with comedians as host that didn't turn out OK failed because the show sucked. If the comedian does a good job keeping suspense and being funny at the same time, so what? They could choose any stand up comic who is out of work. I could care less as long as it's hosted fine.
I love the UK tree but you know as well as I do that it's not going to stick around. I'd prefer it to but it's just not going to happen. I don't think saying, "Eh screw it, just shove a number at the end of the chain and call it a day," works. That's being a lazy producer. People barely get through four or (on the odd chance) five games with more than three lives left. You will never have a top winner with an eighth game.
As for the Cube's presence, that's hard to argue. It's just a matter of personal taste.
Again, my ripping of 5th Grader is based on the fact I didn't care for the show. There's no way you can argue that FOX didn't create a show that people loved, though. Same with Don't Forget the Lyrics. There's no denying that Moment of Truth was a guilty pleasure that got screwed by scheduling and did what it meant to do: provoke. They have had good fortune with game shows they put effort into and bad luck with shows that were thrown together to compete against someone (IE Chance of a Lifetime, The Chamber, etc). The whole commercial-revealing aspect is something game show fans like to get pissed about but apparently the general audience didn't care and the shows stayed popular and gained viewers throughout the hour.
A 20 share for a *brand new* game show in England that has stayed stable for six or seven weeks is something I have not seen in ages. I never suggested it would get a 20 share in America. I'm saying the show is unbelievably stable there with a rating and share staying at the same level constantly, which is amazing.
When you write from a fan's perspective you lose sight to what's important: the viewing audience. The networks don't care about big game show fans. They want the casual viewers. It's why the tons of people bitching about revealing commercial breaks and the general stuff gets slightly old. The general audiences apparently don't mind, ratings go up each half hour because of the teasing, and they keep coming in. Once people get so caught up in fan mode, people completely miss out on the big picture. And the big picture here is England has a well respected show that has an remarkable and unbelievably stable viewing audience, that's critically acclaimed, and that's just about as American as you can make it without adding American contestants. I've not seen a single suggestion to the show so far that adds anything. Mostly everything boils down to change for the sake of change or fandom getting in the way too much.
And finally, I just wanted to say that if there absolutely had to be something changed, your addition of the million at the end is the only thing suggested that has remotely worked. It doesn't destroy the flow of the game and makes some sense. It's most likely not going to happen, though.
Alex, your own remark from the last post
It's why the tons of people bitching about revealing commercial breaks and the general stuff gets slightly old.
Your the one who brings it up time and time again in your posts. Isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black.
Also, I'm not a diehard gameshow fan, I cant name every show Barry hosted, or Cullen for that matter, and am in the main demographic that they ARE looking for. So to say Im not what they want is rather short-sighted on your side.
The major thing is that while you wanted to be on a soap box, you seemed to come closer to my points than me to yours. I know you'll never admit this, but once again the point is mine.
Finally, on the hosts, while most "comedians" have worked for their shows, Howie, Foxworthy, etc, I doubt you could argue the last thing The Cube would need is a Comedian. Thanks and have a good nite.
"Your the one who brings it up time and time again in your posts. Isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black. "
*A little but I know when I'm wrong and can admit it and drop it. Yeah it sucks because it spoils it but it makes people tune in more. So oh well.
Nothing you have suggested helps with the key demo argument. If you suggested throwing models and DoNDing the show up then it would.
I don't think a comedian will hurt the show. If they think a comedian can host the show well and (s)he tests well, so be it. Nothing you have suggested increases the fun of the show, makes it a better show, or changes it in some positive way. It makes it move laterally. So go ahead and take the point because the argument is useless. If I'm wrong at the end I'll gladly admit it. I could care less because, finally, a show I like is coming over here and it's basically fuck-up-proof. I could care less if they add an 8th game or who hosts.
this is why I think Bob Saget would be an excellent host for this show
I agree, I do think Bob Saget would be a good host for this as well. I'd much rather see someone like Mark Walberg get it but someone like Bob Saget is fine by me. We may even see the British host do it since I won't be shocked at all to see us ship our contestants to England and use their set when they film the next batch of episodes in the next coming months.
A $500k prize tree would make sense; $1k-$5k-$20k-$50k-$100k-$200k-$500k would be a pretty close relation to the UK tree (indeed, of the values that matter, the only one that's not a straight doubling is $50k, and that's because $50k looks more obvious on a tree than $40k). You could make the $200k up to $250k, whatever.
If you must make it a million dollars, adding the million to the end of that tree to make it eight would make more sense than any seven-game $1m tree I can think of that would work.
Besides that, Alex is right that little needs to be changed – for the first time since Millionaire, we have a UK show with US production values, very sound gameplay mechanics and an instantly memorable gimmick. That's enough, surely?
As for the host – I think a hands-off host is needed, the stars of this show are the Cube and the cameras surrounding it. And the contestants, as they should be.
"When you write from a fan's perspective you lose sight to what's important: the viewing audience. The networks don't care about big game show fans. They want the casual viewers. It's why the tons of people bitching about revealing commercial breaks and the general stuff gets slightly old. The general audiences apparently don't mind, ratings go up each half hour because of the teasing, and they keep coming in."
I totally get what you're saying here. However, perhaps there is a way to please both game show fans and casual viewers alike? Such as, possibly not saying something that could potentially spoil it (or make people think it spoiled it) but recap the last segment of the show and then be like "What'll happen next? Tune in to find out," or something along those lines. And even after the show airs, I would say that any teasers/previews should show clips of something early in the next few contestants' games rather than later. That way it would be impossible to say something like, "X didn't happen yet so this person is going to win the next game."
Now I'm going off rambling. Basically, my point is, it would be awesome if they could find some way to tease everyone, but not "spoil" it for the game show fans. But you are definitely right when you say that only the game show fans usually complain about the commercials that run before/during the show.
Although I think the $250K top prize is FINE, an eight-step money tree to the $1M would be great:
$1K-$2K-$10K-$20K-$50K-$100K-$250K-$1M
This makes much more sense than some seven-step money trees that come to mind:
$5K-$10K-$25K-$50K-$100K-$500K-$1M
$5K-$10K-$50K-$100K-$250K-$500K-$1M
$1K-$2K-$10K-$50K-$100K-$250K-$1M
So yeah. My first vote is for the UK tree, and my second would be the eight-step $1M tree with the million just added onto the end. The other seven-step ones, while they may make contestants want to go farther with the jumps in money values, just all seem weird to me.